Diagnosed with skin cancer at the age of 26, Betsy Johnson made a commitment to help protect children against the sun’s harmful rays. On a family vacation to Mexico, Betsy had her “Aha” moment and knew she wanted to create a swimwear line that was stylish and practical.
Watch her video to learn how she created and built her business without any previous design and manufacturing experience and then dove into sales, marketing and public relations. Her spunky personality, drive for knowledge and ability to find a way over every hurdle while being scrappy has led her to launch her product in 10 stores, with many more to come.
When this mompreneur called her experience at the ABC Kids Expo “a big flop,” she became scrappy and strategic in finding a way to successfully reach retail buyers. Watch her video to learn how to build those relationships and get results.
If you found value in this interview, please share it so we can help as many mom entrepreneurs as possible during their journey of navigating motherhood and bringing their other dream to life.
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READ the Transcript
Rachel: Hi. I’m Rachel Olson founder of Best Mom Products for mom’s who want to share their adventure in business. Today, I’m talking with Betsy Johnson, founder of SwimZip. A chlorine resistant, children’s swimmer line with UV50 plus protection and full-length zipper that makes swim shirts easy to get on and off. After being diagnosed with cancer, at the age of 26, Betsy made a commitment to protect others from the harmful rays of the sun. Today we’ll learn how she approached design, manufacturing, sales/marketing, and used LinkedIn to effectively find the contacts she needed to grow her business. Welcome Betsy. Let’s get started.
Betsy: Thanks for inviting me.
Rachel: Sure. Thanks for being here. So let’s first talk about how and when the idea came to you.
Betsy: So the idea came to me, I was on the beach with my brother and my whole entire family, we were playing. And every single day I would lather on the sunscreen. I’d put on the big floppy hat. I’d stay under the [inaudible 00:58]. I was chatting with my brother, this was in 2009 – 2010, it was over Christmas, and he was talking about how much he hated taking on and off just a regular [Rash Guard] that his daughter wore, her name’s Mary Ella. And so I was like oh, this is such a pain, I feel terrible but you have to deal with it but, who wants their little kid to go out in the sun and get sunburned.
So I just cut the Rash Guard right up the front and then added bobby pins and holes in the front and twisted them and let Mary Ella play the whole day. Then at night we just untwisted it and pulled it off and Mary Ella was asleep in five minutes without having to pull the Rash Guard over the head and pull her ears and pull her hair. Every single time it just became a pain and she would cry. So there was no crying involved. It was great.
Rachel: So tell us a little bit more about your background then. What did you do before this?
Betsy: So before I started doing some SwimZip, I graduated from college and joined the Boeing Company and was there in a developmental program within finance for two years where you get six different types of finance jobs. So I was doing accounting and financial planning and all these great jobs where you crunch numbers. And I just realized that was not the best fit for me. So I stayed around Boeing for three years and I just, at the end of it I just realized that I wasn’t using my skill set and I wasn’t having fun in my job. And the idea of SwimZip came to me and I just decided that now is the time to try it and go in and dive head first. If it doesn’t work I can always go back to finance [inaudible 02:44].
Rachel: No. No. Good for you. So, I think you told me before the idea kind of came to you, I think it was December 2009. How did you go about, once you made this prototype and you thought, “I’m on to something here,” what were the next steps that you took?
Betsy: So the next steps that I took were finding a supplier. I knew that there, that Rash Guards were out there and that they’re already being made, they’re already in stores. So I knew that there were a lot of suppliers out there that made swimwear and Rash Guards. So, I got on a website that had a whole bunch of suppliers from all different countries. So China, Singapore, and Mexico, and Canada, and US and I searched for a swimwear suppliers. I contacted like five and I was like okay, let’s see if any of these can work. So, going back and forth it was directly with the factories. And so the language barrier was a little bit of an issue at first, but we got through it and we did a lot of picture taking, and drawing, you know drawing an arrow to where the sleeves were and the zippers were.
Rachel: Sorry for cutting you off, but does this make you, first of all I want to hear the name of the website.
Betsy: [inaudible 04:04]
Rachel Olson: How do you say it?
Rachel Olson: Alibaba, okay.
Rachel: Because I’m very curious, you had a good experience with them. But it’s interesting when you say all the different things, were you nervous when you drawing an arrow saying, here’s where the sleeve goes? Did you think that you were actually going to get what you wanted?
Betsy: No. It was like diving head first. I had no idea if they understood what my translation of a sleeve was compared to what their translation of what a sleeve was. So we went back and forth a lot. They would send me pictures and I would write this is the sleeve and this is the neck and this is the type of stitching. So I, the website that I used was Alibaba and we, I actually had a really great experience using them and I know we’ve talked before and people didn’t have a great experience, but I was lucky and I found a fabulous supplier.
Rachel: Yeah, that, go on, sorry.
Betsy: It’s okay. I had a great supplier and he and I had been working together since 2009 – 2010. So he’s been, we’ve had-, trying to find other suppliers, but he’s been just really fabulous to work with and the prices are great. But at first, going back and forth about the design was, you know, we had no idea what we were talking about.
Rachel: Yeah. So that leads me to the question, so you have a finance background and yeah, you’re looking at, how did you create the design? Because you’re pretty savvy about this.
Betsy: Yeah. So designing my first one was terrible. I didn’t really know what I was doing. I’m not a designer. I can’t draw. I can’t do any of this. So I just took pictures of other products and swim shirts and cut them. I actually never really sewed the swim shirt together as a whole. It was just taking pieces and parts and pulling the picture together to depict what I wanted and I never really made a prototype.
Rachel: So, you went to stores and you picked out bathing suits that you liked or like sizes that you liked? How did you figure that out?
Betsy: Yeah. Sizing has been hit and miss because you never really know whose sizing is right. So I went to a ton of different stores, bought all sorts of rash guards and swimming suits and just measured each one. And so I knew the centimeters that the length was and how tall an average baby was, and the average weight so I could really get a sense of what fit a child and each size that we did. My first year I did 1T to 5T, which is a one year-old, a two year-old, three year-old, four year-old, five year-old and I started with those sizes. Really got them from going to Target and the Gap and looking at other stores. And then we changed a little bit about our sizing and then came out with 6 – 12, 12 – 18, 18 – 24, 2T, 3T, 4T, and 5T.
Rachel: More traditional sizing.
Betsy: Yeah. [inaudible 07:07] things right?
Rachel: Yeah, but that’s interesting because you, well congratulations, I know your pregnant with your first child. So you didn’t have a child before this and you’re figuring out all this stuff, which is pretty impressive. I mean, it’s another learning curve, but just to even see this need because of your background and your experience with the sun and so when you’re going through the design process, did you have an idea for an aesthetic? Did you know what colors you wanted or did you research that? Or did you just decide that you liked certain colors?
Betsy: Yeah. I would say that I love fashion. I’ve always been someone who loves to go shopping and loves to find the little stores that no one knows about. You can pop in and you know that not everyone walking down the street is going to have it. So I would say I have always loved fashion and I love putting pieces together and mismatching one type of khaki with another type of khaki. So I’ve had a lot of fun designing my swimwear and this year we have a purple with a raspberry zipper. So, I’m just trying to make it fun and different but still have the fashionable flair. So I would be the type of person that would go to TJ Maxx or any discount store and find . . . in pieces to [inaudible 08:30] together. So, I would say that’s where my designs have come from is just my own little fashion interests.
Rachel: That’s great. Did you hire a designer to actually design the aesthetic for you? How did that work? Or did you do it in Photoshop, did you tell me you did it Photoshop?
Betsy: Yeah. That is how I did it.
Rachel Olson: Okay.
Betsy: So to design the swimwear and where the colors would be and what color and what type of zipper and play with different shades, I bought Photoshop and it was, I think it was the cheapest kind of Photoshop you can get and I got home that day and I played with it for literally 24 hours. I had no idea what I was doing. I have a mom whose a photographer and so I would call her and be like, “How do I change the color of this layer.” She’s like, “Oh, you’re only supposed to select the layer and then it changes.” I was like, oh. So I designed it within Photoshop and that’s how I’ve been doing it. I don’t make any of it. I’ll go to stores, like fabric stores and get fabric swatches that I like, but I’ve never really sewed one or looked at what looks good altogether. I’m more of a visual person who can see it on the computer.
Rachel: Oh, interesting. So, if you’re picking these different swatches up and your getting a feel for it, all of your designs now are original?
Betsy: Yeah. All of them are 100% original. And you can’t find them anywhere else. And no one else even makes the full-length zipper right down the front of the rash guard. It’s one of a kind.
Rachel: Right. Okay. Tell me a little bit about website design. What did you do for that?
Betsy: Okay. So when I first built my website it was just through Go Daddy. The regular, standard, template. And I had no idea what I was doing. I had help from my brother and he had no idea what he was doing. So what I did with our new website, is I found, I put it on Craigslist looking for a website designer. And I got, you’ll get 100 or 200 emails about people who are interested. So you just have to filter all of your emails. Go through and open and star them and remember them. Then I sent out an email to the top ten designers that I liked based on price, because I had them tell me, show me your website, show me examples of what you do, show me your price, turn around time, also monthly I think that’s really important because search engine optimization is so important, you want to constantly be updating your website. So I wanted to know how much a monthly fee would be, so I wouldn’t have to pay for every little change you do.
Rachel: Right. Good idea.
Betsy: So, I emailed ten of them and I wanted someone local and so that was really important to me that I could meet face-to-face and I got proposals back from nine out of the ten and then I ended up meeting with four of them. And just found one that I, it’s really important to be able to connect with them so they know what you’re good at, you know what they’re good at, you know how to communicate. He knows, my new one, that I have no idea what a website language is and I have no idea how it works. So it’s just being honest with them. He’s helped me a lot on building my new website. So I put it on Craigslist and found someone who is interested in my brand and also me and I’m interested in them. So we really leverage each others’ strengths.
Rachel: Yeah. That’s great. So let me ask you that question. So when you don’t know when something, like website design and you’re telling them, are they nurturing you through this process? Did you ever feel like you were being taken advantage of? It sounds like you found a good fit for you. You interviewed enough people to realize that, but was that apparent in some of your interviews, did those things stand out to you?
Betsy: Yes. And I’ve had previous web designers so I’d know what it feels like when you don’t have a good fit. And so that was really important. Someone I would be okay with saying, “Okay, I don’t get it. I don’t understand what HTML is. Can you please explain it to me. Or I don’t understand what a ping file is, a .ping file. I have no idea but if you tell me, I’m willing to learn.” I’m okay with being the idiot that has to ask a hundred questions because once you understand you can do so much more. So it’s understanding fundamentals and allowing them to know that you want to learn I think is important.
Rachel: Yeah. Production runs. How many pieces do you have to produce for a production run?
Betsy: So for style you have to produce 1500.
Rachel: Oh, wow.
Betsy: But that’s, it’s not by size. So just total style.
Betsy: So we can order very small, relatively very small quantities, but that has been based on building our relationship with our supplier and being honest and showing what we need and what we don’t need. Really communicating that if we’re successful we will place more order and you’ll be successful. So that communication has finally crossed over.
Rachel: Yeah. When we talked before I remember you saying something like the first minimum order you couldn’t really handle. You were still testing out your product. So they helped you, your relationship with the manufacturer, I think you ordered, what was it, 200 or?
Rachel: You ordered much less than 1500.
Betsy: Yes. Yes.
Rachel: Okay. So what did you do to those, with those 200?
Betsy: So we did a lot of, so it was like our first like test batch so we sent them out and got feedback from people. We sold them online. We were just really wanting to test the market and see if parents liked the idea of it. A lot of it, most of it was friends of friends of friends and friends of family. Family members that knew people. So the order quantity was small at first and just testing the market to see if it was actually, if parents liked it and what was comfortable about it and uncomfortable about it.
Rachel: Oh, interesting. Did you get a lot of good feedback from that?
Betsy: Yes. A lot of great feedback. We learned a ton about the fabric and the stitching. I put a zipper front behind the zipper because people would say that it rubbed their tummy’s. We just got a ton of feedback from people, but also that they loved the concept and the idea, which was great. You know that positive reinforcement keeps you going and interested.
Rachel: Right. Right. And well, it’s very validating when people find your product or your concept something of value. So I want to hear a little bit about then, what did you do next up? So you have your product, you’ve got your manufacturer, your website’s up. It’s time to start sales and marketing. Where do you go from there? Tell me about that process.
Betsy: So, sales are hard. Especially when you have a new product and your website is slowly being developed. The first one that we had wasn’t great and so it wasn’t the best. People would go to it and they’re like eek, this isn’t the best website.
Rachel: What was wrong with it when you say that?
Betsy: So, I think the website, there’s a look and feel to our websites that people appreciate. They appreciate the cleanliness of it. They appreciate really great photography. They appreciate user friendliness. So when you, if on your website there is a Home button and it always goes to the same place. Or to shop is really user friendly and they realize they’re actually buying something. I think the interface on where you buy is really important so people don’t think that it’s a fake website. Which is kind of the issue we had when I first made the website.
Rachel: Oh, interesting.
Betsy: Because it wasn’t very professional.
Betsy: When we got it remade it was great.
Betsy: Like, oh this looks like a real website.
Betsy: So, we got the new website and then sales. We had to get out in the market. So we ended up hiring a PR person to get help. They were able to get our product on a lot of blogs. We sent out a ton of samples, which cost a lot of money for shipping, for product.
Betsy: Lot’s of emails with photos that they can use and your logo and everything. I think that it was a great opportunity for us to get the knowledge out there.
Rachel: Tell me a little bit about, what was the result when a blogger would write about your product? Would you get, would you see sales? Or would you see a spike? Do you use Google Analytics or some sort of to see how many people come to your website?
Betsy: Yeah. I did. I would see a couple, it would drive a little bit of traffic to our website through Google Analytics we could track that. But the blog posts weren’t really effective for my audience, especially since I’m such a seasonal product. If you have a blog post about swimwear in September, no one really cares. They’re not looking for it. They don’t know that’s what’s important.
Betsy: Because they’re ready for winter jackets and hats and gloves. So I think the timing of a lot of the PR stuff was a little early for our brand. So I would say it’s really important to focus on, at least for my brand, the magazines for parents. [inaudible 17:42] purchase the magazine, they’re reading it. They want to know what information is in there so that is what has really benefited us.
Betsy: And those contacts are things that you can search on the Internet and you can find the editor and they really appreciate a small company or brand reaching out to them. And if you’re quick to email them back when they get back to you or if they need information and you send it right away, they are 100% appreciative and they want you to be successful as well. So I would say PR is great and it helps with the brand.
Rachel: Marketing then, tell me a little bit more about, you’re on Twitter and Facebook. Do you use those a lot to connect with customers? How do you get your customers, I guess is what I’m asking?
Betsy: Yeah. So I reach out, we are really active on Twitter and Facebook. I reach out personally on my personal Facebook page and also on my business Facebook page. We reach out. I introduce myself and talk about SwimZip and I comment on all their posts that they write and I just try to be an active member of their community, just so they realize that I exist and that I’m out there. And Twitter has been great for all the blog posts that PR people get for us. And so re-tweeting those and being active there has really driven a lot of traffic to our site.
And then just following up if someone adds us as a Twitter person or a Twitter follower and it’s a boutique or a store we always contact them directly and say it’s been great to connect via Twitter. We’d love to share more information about our company and our brand. If it’s a fit I let them know that I think it would be a great fit. In a couple of months when it’s summer. And Facebook the same way. Just constantly reaching out and letting them know you exist and out there.
Rachel: Right. So when you say letting them know, who are you targeting?
Betsy: I target both boutiques, for Facebook and Twitter I target boutiques and also individual buyers just moms, dad, and grandparents. I would say the direct contacts of-, if we do a giveaway on our website or pardon me, on our Facebook page, getting people to interact and to write something, comment on it, but now that Facebook has changed a lot of their policies about their giveaways, we’re working around that and trying to figure out a new way to do it.
Betsy: We target both.
Rachel: So that’s interesting. So let’s talk about, we’ll skip back and forth between sales and marketing, but so I know that you have had some experience, you going to a trade show. I think it was like the largest, the ABC Kids Expo and they had moved from Vegas to Kentucky, right? And this was the year that they moved there, so you spent all this money and tell me what happened?
Betsy: So I would say that the ABC Kids Expo, at least for, I would say it was a complete flop. I [inaudible 20:37] my SwimZip brand wasn’t big enough yet or I wasn’t prepared with enough material or the correct material. But I heard since it switched from Vegas to Kentucky that the store, the buyer traffic had declined incredibly. It was a huge drop. So there weren’t a lot of buyers and I, we stood there eight to ten hours a day, smiling and trying to bring people in. It was just really, really hard.
Betsy: It did not go well for us and we spent a ton of money, and a lot of time, and a lot of headache, and a lot of crying at night through the show. It was hard.
Rachel: So what did you think about that after the show? It’s over. You’ve put in all this effort. This was going to be your huge way to reach buyers. You’re disappointed. Were do you go from there?
Betsy: So I took about a week off and then I just got back on the train and reached, I got really active on Facebook and Twitter. Reaching out to blogs. Working on my own press. I also looked at my product and looked at my brand and really wanted to say, okay what do I need to do to get into these stores that I want?
So I took a step back and I said, how can I reach these people without going to the show? So I looked to LinkedIn and they send out these monthly, a free test trail of Premium LinkedIn Membership. So I waited until a couple of months when the people would be buying for the swimwear season and I got on there for free and I just reached out all sorts of buyers. Whether they were boutiques or Buy Buy Baby, or Toy’s-R-Us, or Nordstrom, or Neiman Marcus and just kept on reaching out and following up with e-mails and just trying to get in contact with different buyers. Because I realized that the show didn’t provide me that opportunity and I had to figure out how I was going to reach them. So I went to LinkedIn to work on sales.
Rachel: So that’s fascinating to me. I mean that is resourceful and scrappy, and it sounds like, tell me about the value it provided? Did you build any of those relationships with those buyers? Did you get any feedback? Did you send an email message to them through LinkedIn? How did that process work?
Betsy: So yeah, I sent the message through, what is it called?
Rachel: It’s called In Mail is what LinkedIn calls it.
Betsy: So, yeah, I reached out via In Mail to a ton of buyers. So I reached out to Buy Buy Baby, Target, Target.com, Baby’s-R-Us, Neiman Marcus and I did get in contact with a whole bunch of different people. It hasn’t landed direct sales for this coming 2012 or 2013 summer, summers, but it’s also given me contacts and they’ve given me feedback and they would like to see the product and they think it would be a great fit for 2014. They just want to make sure that I can scale it enough.
So the contacts have been great. So I’ve been lucky to have those contacts and setting up meetings in different cities. I will do anything. I’m like I will fly to New York. I am eight months pregnant. Just let me know, even if it’s just 30 minutes, I’ll fly there in the morning and I’ll fly home at night. I would do anything to get into these stores. It’s baby steps, but we’re having some great communication and contacts. At least they acknowledge the brand now, which is really important for me.
Rachel: Right. Right. That’s a huge step. Building a brand isn’t easy and it’s going to take years and years and so it is baby steps. So let’s talk a little bit about, yeah do you pay to advertise online at all?
Betsy: So I, we did Google, within Google, Adwords.
Betsy: It was not a great return on our investment. It was 0% return on our investment. But I thought it would be a great step to at least get our brand out there and see, acknowledge that we exist.
Betsy: So we haven’t, we stopped doing Google Adwords and we’re thinking about what else we’d like to do. Now with Facebook changing their business pages around to where you now have to pay $5.00 to promote to a 1,000 people or whatever.
Rachel: You do. That’s interesting. So tell me a little bit, what has changed? This is, let me just tell everyone it’s June 4, 2012, so tell me the changes that you know of.
Betsy: So I just found out last week, I was typing a message on my Facebook, my business Facebook page and saying, come check out this, our swimwear line or if your a wholesaler look on this page. And it said, if you would like to promote to 150 people, pay $5.00. I was like, these are my followers. I have to pay for them to want to read the message that they already selected to be a fan of my page. So I guess now, if you want people to get your message you have to ask them to allow your messages to be in their news feed.
Rachel: Wow. Interesting.
Betsy: It’s a total change and now it’s trying to figure out how to get people to click the button that says “Allow me in your newsfeed.” So how are we going to do this? How are we going to start getting people to do it?
Rachel: Right. That’s so interesting that you say that because this past week has been crazy. I was out of town and I’ve seen so much conversation on Facebook, like I don’t like the new Facebook or the rules and I was thinking that it was oh, you know how some people always get up in arms about things and I was like oh it’s not that big of a deal. But that’s a big deal. I guess they went public, right? And now they have to show a lot more revenue.
Betsy: They have to make money.
Rachel: So, yeah, I guess everyone’s going to have to learn how to go about doing that. Not just you, every single business. You’re either going to be able to pay for it. So do you know if it’s $5.00 per 150 followers or is it just $5.00 every time you want to post?
Betsy: I think it’s $5.00 if you want to promote a post.
Betsy: Which will allow 150 people to see it.
Betsy: You can pay $10.00 for 2,000, if that makes sense.
Rachel: Interesting. It does. Okay, so tell me about, let’s go into, how did you get your first customers and what did that feel like?
Betsy: How I got my first customers was online. And it was promoting the business on Facebook and Twitter, friends of friends, and friends of friends of friends.
Rachel Olson: Right.
Betsy: I’ve always keeping my business cards in my pocket, wallet. If I see a kid at a pool or at the beach, I hand my business card to the parent. Here’s my business card, swimwear that you don’t have to worry about [inaudible 27:39] and then let it build a business client.
Rachel Olson: Yeah. That’s great. So have you thought about or have you hired sales reps? Is that something you think about doing?
Betsy: Yes. We actually hired a sales rep this year, this coming July – August – September [inaudible 28:00] season product [inaudible 28:01]. So we just hired [inaudible 28:05] and she does the whole Southwest or South region and then [inaudible 28:12].
Rachel: Okay. So how do you find the sales reps?
Betsy: LinkedIn. Also through other moms that own businesses. So I’m part of a group called [inaudible 28:31] and they share [inaudible 28:35] all the time and the sales reps they really like and how they’re getting they’re products out. Just through connecting with them I’ve taken the step to find sales reps.
Rachel: Wow. That’s great. So then when you find the sales reps do you interview them as well?
Betsy: Yes. I will have telephone conversations with them and also other brands they carry to make sure my SwimZip brand is a fit. [inaudible 29:00] if they carry very unique products. So I look at [inaudible 29:08] important the relationship that we have together and also be able to [inaudible 29:16]. I’ve never done this before and making sure that they are good with that and understand that I’m going to ask a ton of questions. It’s been fun and getting to know them has been great.
Rachel: Great. So are you in any retail stores yet? You’re really just launching right now, right, into retail?
Betsy: Yes. We have like 10 boutiques and then a couple of online retailers. We haven’t, we’re hoping for next summer [inaudible 29:39] really big launch in a whole bunch of stores.
Rachel: Well, that’s great. That’s very exciting. So I want to ask you, in kind of summary, what is a personal trait that you find is most important for an entrepreneur to have throughout this process?
Betsy: I think I said it a couple of times, but I think willing to be the person that say’s I don’t know or being okay to be questioned and question different things that you don’t understand. Instead of just nodding and saying I understand or I get it. I have to ask a 100 questions so I understand.
And also I think putting yourself out there is a huge trait. I don’t mind taking my business card out and saying, “Hey, if your interested you have my SwimZip line, my swim wear line.” It’s taken me a lot of time to be able to do that and my husband has been great. Just go do it, just go put yourself out there. So I think having supportive family and a great significant other or partner is really important.
Rachel: Yeah. So your expecting your first child very soon and how do you think, I know you can’t really anticipate what those changes will bring, but how do you anticipate managing it all? Have you thought about that?
Betsy: Yes. So my husband and I just moved from Seattle to Kansas and my mom’s around, which will be nice to have some help from her. My husband is just 100% supportive. We went to a show this weekend and I can’t carry big, 10 pound things anymore, or big boxes and my belly’s too big and he brings it all in and helps me set up and you know he has a full time job and so he puts a huge chunk of time in SwimZip. He does all the taxes, the monthly finance stuff. So I think I’ll be able to manage, fingers crossed. I think just having supportive people around and people that want you to be successful, keep inspiring you to be successful.
Rachel: Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. So we’ll end with this last question, why is SwimZip unique and special to you?
Betsy: SwimZip is really unique. It’s the only product that’s out there for rash guard with a full length zipper up the front and it has the UV protection which is so important to me since I was diagnosed with skin cancer. And it just makes parents’ lives easier and kids’ lives easier. And it’s cute and [inaudible 32:13]. Kids will be able to go to the pool now and they won’t have to worry about getting a sunburn anymore. They’ll just have fun and it fits really well. So I’m excited about 2012 and ’13.
Rachel: You’re so cute. You’re full of energy and spunk. So, I want to thank you for sharing with us and our listeners about how SwimZip started. How you got the idea for it and very candid, open, and honest feedback about your process through being an entrepreneur and I’m looking forward to having you back in the future. I’d love to hear every year kind of where you’re at and what’s happened. I think it would be fun to profile some companies like that.
And for those of you listening, SwimZip could be found at www.swimzip.com and for our viewers and listeners, if you like what you heard today, please subscribe to our monthly newsletter so we can make you aware of future interviews. It’s that icon on the top right of your computer screen that looks like an envelope. And thank you. Thank you so much Betsy. I really appreciate it.
Betsy: Yeah. This is great. Thank you so much.